Bird Man of Venice said

Loren Lyons said

Bird Man of Venice said

Frankly, how dare you!

My wife happens to be Jewish, and her family was driven out of Europe by the Nazis – at least those who were lucky enough to escape.  The remainder of her family ended up in concentration camps.  I can assure you, I'm not anti-semitic!

BMOV u have dragged every wrong ever committed by anyone anywhere to support your argument that is ok to be an a**h*le and fly a swastika sign over a crowded beach in 2012.  not the hindu version of it, but the aryan version of it.  you have taken to devil's advocate position to an extreme that collapsed into a pile of woe and statistics.  (by the way, how were the native americans to each other?  or the african kings?  we're their hands clean?)  again you have a right to stick to logic and un-emotionality for the sake of argument.  but tell us this;

how would your postulation be received by your wife and her family holocaust survivors?  would you become "right", yet STILL persona-non-grata at chanukka?

 

As for "condemning a Symbol", it is just that, a symbol of _______ fill in blank here.  and if the overarching meaning for said symbol is completely negative in this HEMISPHERE (you right i don't make it "over there" much) then perhaps some sensitivity to that instead of steadfastly hammering the technical points of being right home.  otherwise we get into some real deconstructionist philosophies and quickly realize that no one's hands are clean ultimately and that well, let's all be nietzche or camus since we are all gonna die someday anyway.  

Okay, so I tested your theory.  My wife is a very intelligent person, so I asked her for her views.  She agreed with me (no surprise) that it would be good if the swastika were to be reclaimed as a symbol of good.  Of course, my wife is highly educated, has spent time with people of many spiritual traditions and understands the use of religious symbols.  She wasn't even hesitant about it.

She understood my ability to support the legitimate use of the symbol, while still condemning the acts of those who perverted it's meaning.

Now again – let me clarify.

I support he use of the swastika in it's proper configuration, not with the hooks turned in the opposite direction (the version.)  If they were flying the version over the beach, that's wrong.  In fact, they are both entirely different symbols.  It's the same as if a Satanist were to hang a cross upside-down.

I also think it's wrong to display the swastika in an inappropriate context.  If it (and again, I mean the correct version) is used to adorn a Hindu place of worship, or worn in jewelry by a Hindu person (or anyone who is using it in its intended spiritual context) then the display of this symbol is totally acceptable.  Anyone using the swastika as a symbol of hate, I condemn.

With symbols, it's always about context – much like any other language.

To use the cross again – a cross used on the steeple of a country church is totally appropriate.  One burning on the lawn of an African-American family in the Mississippi, not so much.

A skin head is using the symbol as a symbol of hate.  I don't condemn the symbol, I condemn them.

I am sorry that you feel that my sticking to logic for the sake of argument is inferior to using raw emotion to settle differences.  I do, however, wish more of the world would use a little bit more reason and logic, and a little less emotion.  Perhaps we could finally have a more peaceful Earth if that were the case.

I also think that recognizing that nobody's hands are clean is an important part of reaching understanding and healing.  The first step is to acknowledge our own wrongs and then to work to make amends.  We can't stop a skin head from hating, but we can release our own hatred and be an example for others to embrace, should they wish to do so.  You achieve piece by building bridges, not dropping bombs.  In this, I feel the Raelians are wrong.  They are trying to force healing on society, rather than peacefully practicing their beliefs and then educating people they come into contact with on an individual basis.  I feel that would be more effective and sensitive.  I understand that they will be subjected to a certain amount of hatred for using the symbol by those who are uneducated, but they should perceive that as an opportunity to engage in constructive dialog. If they were to be shining examples of goodness in our communities while not being ashamed of wearing that symbol, that would be the best way to reclaim it.  Forcing change down peoples throats just doesn't work.

I'm a bit disappointed that you have the classic "Ugly American" attitude.  It's caused a lot of suffering over the years.  It's important to treat every nation, people and individual with understanding and dignity.  How do we ask others to embrace our spiritual beliefs if we do nothing but heap scorn on theirs?  If you're not familiar with the concept, the "Ugly American" (and I've encountered more than a few) are those who travel abroad and then spend most of their time telling the populace of the country they are visiting about how backward they are, how stupid their customs are, how much better it is back in America.  They view the remainder of the worlds population as some type of backward savages.  I recognize that this is the minority of Americans, but there is still that attitude.  My guess is that the reason is the education system in the US is slanted toward US history, rather than world history.  In Canada, we learn ancient and European history in school first, then our own last.  I think it gives you a broader perspective, which is why we as a people probably tend to be more diplomatic.

As for my parallel between the abuses of the Jewish people in Europe in the 1940's and the abuses of the Native Americans here in the United States, I agree that it is an unfair comparison.  There are museums to recognize the injustices done to the Jewish people.  We teach the horrors of the Holocaust to our children in hopes that it won't be repeated.  We hunt those who were part of the horrors and put them in prisons, even though they are in their 80's and 90's and have lived peacefully for the last 60 years.  We condemn those who deny the Holocaust existed.  And we are right in doing all those things.

As for the Native Americans, we sanitize our history to deny that the atrocities ever happened.  We continue to shove them onto reservations and to strip away their land from them if the government has a need. (There is a tribe currently where the Government is trying to force them off their homes using imminent domain because they discovered uranium under what was believed to be the useless arid land where they forcefully relocated them decades ago.)  We don't have monuments and museums to remind people about their horrors.  We don't accept responsibility as a society.  We turn blindly from the whole affair.  We continue to cast them as savages and bad-guys in our cinema.  We teach that the Natives saved the Pilgrims from starvation as we celebrate Thanksgiving, but we fail to mention that the Pilgrims thanked them by slaughtering the tribe for their land.

So we agree – it's not at all a fair comparison.

Finally, it might surprise me that my Jewish wife, who's Grandmother and Grandfather fled Hungary with the clothes on their backs just before their Brothers and Sisters were rounded up and shipped off to the camps, told me that she doesn't hate the Nazis.  Make no mistake, she hates and condemns what they did.  The Buddhist Monk she used to hang with taught her that holding on to hatred in your heart for others, on matter how terrible they may be, only hurts yourself in the end.  Hatred is a powerful emotion, and almost a narcotic in it's addictive properties.  In the end, it only brings more harm to ourselves.

So after your done helping to reclaim the Swastika. What's your next project to reclaim the  goose step.