Pronounced nat-zee

Venice Rob said Movie Name: Inglourious Basterds (2009)

Quote:

Lt. Aldo Raine:  Now, I dont know
  about yall, but I sure as hell didnt come down from the goddamn
  Smoky Mountains, cross five thousand miles of water, fight my way
  through half Sicily and then jump out of a fu*%in air-o-plane to
  teach the Nazis lessons in humanity.Nazis aint got no humanity.
  Theyre the foot soldiers of a Jew-hatin, mass murderin maniac
  and they need to be dee-stroyed. Thats why every son of a bitch we
  find wearin a Nazis uniform, theyre gonna die. 








 

Loren Lyons said

it may have meant a positive thing when it was a relatively unknown symbol but it's worldwide exposure has only been as  negative symbol.

Let me guess, you don't get around much. :)

If by "relatively unknown symbol" you mean relatively unknown by the approximately 1 billion people who practice Hinduism (which is about 1/8th of the worlds population – then I suppose it's relatively unknown.  Other religions also have used this symbol, as already pointed out in this thread.

So, your point is that a Western nation stole your important religious symbol and pissed all over it, so now we don't want you to be able to use it anymore.

Do and think what you want, but I feel that I have room in my compassion to be sympathetic to the suffering of those against whom atrocities were committed by those wearing that symbol, while still understanding the legitimate uses of the symbol in a positive manner by one of the world's great religions – and their wish to continue to use a symbol which is significant and positive to them.  But then again, I'm Canadian and we do seem to like middle ground and trying to make everyone happy. ;)

Damien Marsic said
I don't know about the KKK, but the Catholic Church has been responsible for Inquisitions, crusades, colonialism, genocide (in particular South America and Africa). More people have been massacred under the Christian cross in 2000 years than by Germany.

 

You don't have to go back very far to see atrocities committed by those wearing the cross. Ask any elderly Native American who was forced to spend their childhood in a residential school.

For those of you who don't know, the residential schools were enacted in North American by the government, who wanted to "civilize" the Native Americans.  Government authorities would show up and forcibly remove the children from their homes and communities, busing them to the schools that were run by the churches.  The priests and nuns would give the Native children an education they wouldn't forget.

Daily life at these schools meant that the children were forced to wear clothing that was unfamiliar to them, school uniforms.  They were not allowed to speak their language or practice their spiritual beliefs, and were viscously beaten if caught doing so. They were not allowed to have any communication with their families.

Not only were they subjected to repeated harsh beatings, but to sexual abuse.

In one heartbreaking story I heard a Native testify to his experience at the school.  In his case, it was run by the Jesuits.  He said that every young boy was given a number.  In the morning, the priest would open his window on the upper floor and shout out a number at random.  That was the boy he was going to rape that day.  He said that they would huddle, too scared to play, until the priest had called out the number.  After that, they would be able to play since they knew it wasn't going to be their turn.

These atrocities – while not on the same horrific level as the concentration camps, were none the less of the same nature, and just as traumatic.  Not to mention that, here in the United States, the government never has made an effort to make amends or to hold anyone accountable.  These atrocities were committed by men proudly wearing the Christian Cross on their uniform.

There was a book written on the Residential Schools a while back.  My friends Grandmother had been one of the children at the residential school who suffered the abuse.  The book lay in the drawer of her bureau unopened until the day she died.  She said that, even in her advanced age, she still suffered too many nightmares from her time there, and could never find the strength to read it.

Sadly, many of us chose to ignore this part of our own history.  And lets be honest, our government isn't openly owning up to it.

Canada and Australia have made better efforts to right these wrongs.  In Canada, the federal government proclaimed a "Day of Healing" in which aboriginal peoples were invited to Ottawa.  A feast and celebration were held, after which the Prime Minister stood in Parliament and formally accepted responsibility for the wrongs committed by the Federal Government in the past against the Native people, and offered a public apology.  It was considered an important first step in healing.

So, I'm not insensitive to atrocities.

My point is that, while I don't think a Christian should be ashamed to wear a cross in spite of the atrocities committed by their faith, I also don't think a Hindu should be subjected to abuse for wearing a symbol that is important to his faith, not withstanding the atrocities committed by a non-Hindu under the perverted form of that symbol.

Is my position really that unreasonable?

Venice Rob said

Bird Man of Venice said

Is my position really that unreasonable? 

I find your position extremely offensive and disrespectful and I am not even a holocaust survivor. The kinds of people this rhetoric appeals too are anti-semitic and have hidden agendas just like the Nazis did in the 1930's. You sound like a raving lunatic with these rants and comparison's. Or the truth be told your just anti-semitic with an ax to grind.

Frankly, how dare you!

My wife happens to be Jewish, and her family was driven out of Europe by the Nazis – at least those who were lucky enough to escape.  The remainder of her family ended up in concentration camps.  I can assure you, I'm not anti-semitic!

Apparently, you only wish to practice selective tolerance.  You have no sympathy for the Hindus or Buddhist who have to put up with the hatred generated toward one of their most sacred symbols.  This doesn't concern you?

And as for raving rants – I believe that my position on the matter has been clearly articulated.  It is you that are reacting emotionally.

Unfortunately, truth is often perceived as offensive or disrespectful – accusations which have been used to silence people for ages.  It was not my intention to upset you, just to elevate the discussion beyond the emotional to the intellectual.  I'm sorry you've been offended.

I'm not at all trying to be disrespectful, in fact I've stated directly in several of these posts that the acts committed by the Nazis were barbaric and horrific.  Don't know how much more clearly I can put that.